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| Shooting East Indian Rosewood http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5200 |
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| Author: | dubell [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:50 am ] |
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I am shooting for the first time. I am shooting with a #4 plane. I shot some Western Red Cedar today with little trouble. I had a bulge in the middle, so I applied more pressure as I shot. Problem solved, joined beautifully. I went on to shoot the back which is made of EIR. I can't get this to pass candling. I either have more material on the ends that causes light in the middle, or the ends show light with the middle passing. I keep taking away the high spots, and then shoot a pass. I have done this about 20 times with the EIR and have gotten no where. What am I doing wrong?? Thanks, Doug |
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| Author: | sfbrown [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:09 pm ] |
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Doug, I'm far from an expert but I followed Robbie O's DVD. He uses a jointer to get close and then sands the high spots with sandpaper on a small flat block of wood. I have used the method twice and it has provided a near flawless joint. Hope this helps, Steve PS I've been working wood for years and have NEVER been able to use a shooting board with the precision "they" claim!  
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 pm ] |
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Yep, Atlas 6" Jointer, then slap two sheets of 180 grit under the fence for a quick hone of the edges. I've gone back and forth a number of times between electric jointer and a No.7 Bailey, usually end up back at the Atlas and a little motion on the sandpaper. I bet now that I've learned to hone chisels that another try at the No.7 might lead me to use that method. Currently my experience mirrors yours Doug. It's just so easy to slap those edges on the jointer and run it through..... All I think about is keeping my fingers clear. I'm blood and pain averse. |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:31 pm ] |
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I use a jointer also. I bought a rigid at home depot it does an excellent job. Before that I used a router. I would clamp the two peices 3/8" apart on a flat backing of 1/2" MDFThen clamp a straightedge so the 1/2" router bit would cut both peices simultaneously. Any error in the straightedge would be in both peices in mirror image so they would always fit perfectly. Just be sure that the router is always tight to the straightedge, and that the cut only goes about 1/16" into the MDF backing. Al |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:43 pm ] |
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I had the same problem. You need to pay close attention to what your body is doing while you plane. If you are shifting your body weight from one foot to the other through the stroke. Then you are also probably changing the pressure you're putting on the plane from one hand to the other - if this makes sense? I was putting more pressure on the heel of the plane at the start of the stroke and as I shifted my body weight from one foot to the other I was tranfering more pressure to the toe of the plane and less to the heel. I really had to watch what I was doing to figure this out. Once I worked it out I got a perfect joint. |
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| Author: | Cocephus [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:47 pm ] |
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Doug, are you sure that your shooting board is absolutely straight? That`s where I found my main problem when I tried it the first time. Don`t be afraid to commit that one board to your arsenal of equipment for that sole purpose. Don`t give up the ship! Coe |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:30 pm ] |
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I use a #7 Record. Not the worlds greatest plane but it does the job very well. I have found one of the keys using it is keeping the blade razor sharp. You might try sharpening your blade and giving it another try. The above suggestions from other people will really help at well. Josh |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:47 am ] |
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The #4's kind of a short plane for that purpose. I use a Lie Nielsen 4-1/2, and it took quite a bit of practice to get to where I could candle the joints and not see light. It's not impossible though. Just be patient and don't practice on a set that doesn't have a lot of extra width. I'm sure eventually I'll pick up a #6 or #7 for jointing. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:01 am ] |
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What Everyone Else Said. Even strokes, weight distribution, finely set up plane. Spruce and WRC are a lot easier than EIR, but my first three sets of hardwood were 2 x EIR, 1 x Khaya, and I ended up doing fine, no sanding needed. |
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| Author: | dubell [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:12 am ] |
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Thanks guys. I experimented last night with sanding. I have a large 3" x 3" x 18" sanding block. I already had 220 on it, so I used that. After sanding the entire joining faces, I got the results I was looking for. I then took my plane over it again and wound up with irregularities. I have about ?” to play with, so I plan on continuing to experiment. I am going to re-sharpen the plane blade and try again. If that doesn’t work, I am going to add to my shooting board, or move to another area that is dead flat. Right now I have my backs sitting on ?” MDF. The MDF had to stops. I use 2 cam clamps and a scrap piece of wood to hold down the backs. The plane side actually rides on my workbench. My workbench is not flat. I am thinking of adding another MDF board underneath the first. My plane will ride on this board. One thing I read in the Cumpiano book is that sanding this joint is inferior to planning because sanding leaves grooves. He says that the joint is too critical and should be planned by hand. Lastly, I am having a heck of a time shooting the EIR. It is very hard to push though the material. Is EIR that hard to shoot? Thanks, Doug |
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| Author: | Kim [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:27 am ] |
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Doug, If you are having problems pushing your plane through a 1/4" width of any hardwood, you need to sharpen your plane properly. One tip, you will HEAR a distinct sound when a well honed plane is cutting wood, it is a wonderful sound, once you hear it, you will know you have it right. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:02 am ] |
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Also...Try shooting in the opposite direction. Sometimes grain orientation can make a difference. Most importantly...have a VERY SHARP quality iron. |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:48 am ] |
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I have an old 24" wooden plane that I trued up and I clamp it on its side to a flat surface, like the table of my table saw. I place a 3/4" thick piece of plywood next to it in order to raise the piece to be jointed high enough. I slide the piece to be jointed over the piece of plywood. For some reason, this allows me to maintain even pressure from end to end. If I find it ends up with either high ends or a hump in the middle, I can change my pressure on the piece during the next pass to compensate. Once my pieces are glued up I always have trouble finding the seam, whether it's tops or backs. Works for me. Craig |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:04 am ] |
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If you're having problems pushing it through, you're blade is dull or you're taking too big a cut. Sharpen your blade and try to take down the high spots using the very tiniest of cuts. I shoot with an old Stanley plane (I use the scary sharp sandpaper method of honing) and I noticed that anything but the shallowest of cuts will take too much material, and then you start zig-zagging back and forth. It might take a bit longer, but the results will be worth your while. Stick with it, because it's better to glue a planed surface than a sanded one. Cheers. |
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| Author: | Graham Steward [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:35 am ] |
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Doug, There's no need to shoot your wood. It's already dead! Plus all the bullet holes would be hard to patch up later. 
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| Author: | Kelby [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:05 am ] |
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I agree with the concerns already voiced --- #4 is a little short, and you need to sharpen the plane. One more point. You should not be applying much pressure sideways as you shoot thin boards. A 1/8" board will bend a little if you push on it, and intermittent bending could result in a less than ideal joint. If your plane is sharp and set for a paper-thin cut, you shouldn't have to push much as you shoot. |
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| Author: | Rob Girdis [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:11 pm ] |
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It's important to make sure that the plane's sole is really flat. If you can take more out of the middle of the board than the ends, you probably have a slight lenthwise convexity, is that a word?, in the plane. If the plane is really flat, you can't take more out of the middle of the board. I personally prefer wooden planes, but I have to true them often. I am a fan of the ECE planes. The blade adjustment mechanism is precise and sure in use. Wooden planes get out of wack from use, and from temp and humidity cycles. Whenever I am having any problems getting things to candle properly, I first sharpen the plane, no matter how sharp I think it is, and true the plane on my surface plate. After that, things are usually taken care of in the next few passes. Latety I have just been using my smoothing plane to join tops and backs. (Micheal Gurian tells me he used to use a block plane for this). I think the flatness of the plane is more critcal than the length. Another thing. With a shooting board you keep using the same part of the blade, that little area that is contacting the wood, over and over. It gets less sharp over time than the rest of the blade. A good trick is to have a full length shim piece of plywood to slip under your shooting board. After the first bunch of passes to get the boards close, you slip the slim under the shooting board which effectively raises your board and lets you use a fresh untouched part of the blade for the final passes. Take really thin shavings with a really sharp plane. Or you can use another plane to get close and keep the ultra sharp one for the final passes. You could even make a ramped shooting board in order to be using all, or most of, the blade on each pass. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:25 pm ] |
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I was having the same problems as you so I changed my set up. What I do now is start with a piece of melimine covered partical board, then I routed a chanel on the bottoem of another piece of partical board so I can lay a straight edge doen on the first piece and then put the second piece overit. Just about a 1/4 of the straight edge protrudes. I lay my plane on it's side and use the straight edge as a guide. I put the wood on top and clamp it down. then just plane the wood until the base of the plane rides up to the straight edge. That does the trick. straight edges every time. |
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| Author: | dubell [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:48 pm ] |
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Ok, we have a verdict..............The problem I was having was most likely due to me taking away too much material. I say most likely because I did sharpen my blade first. After installing the blade in the plane, I lowered the blade until it just started to make super fine shavings. With this setup, I was able to go over high areas and actually correct the situation! Last night when I did this, I wound up with a low spot. Thanks everyone. What a rewarding feeling that was. Doug |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:31 am ] |
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I agree with Kelby here it can be done with a #5 or #6 but a #4 is just too short. The best is a #7 or longer. You want a sole at least half the length of the plank to make candeling easy. With a #4 being so short a little pressure change will cause you to varry. Thats why the call a #4 a block plane and a #7 a jointer 
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| Author: | Joe V [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:50 pm ] |
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For what its worth I had a terrible time trying to join tops and backs with a 4 1/2. When I got the 7 1/2 it was a piece of cake. I first use the power jointer then the 7 1/2 with a shooting board. Even with limited skill and experience I get a joint that daylight can't get through. Joe Volin |
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| Author: | dubell [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:53 am ] |
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You mean to tell me that I have to go and buy a brand new #7 Plane??? I hate buying new tools ;). What's a good one? I just bought a new Veritas Block plane. Although I have yet to use it, it is very nice and I look forward to using it. Thanks, Doug P.S. - How do I convince my wife of this one? I have run out of excuses. |
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| Author: | old man [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:34 am ] |
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I'm plane poor (and plain poor). I just bought a new #4 Bailey because Cumpiano recommended a #3 or #4. Haven't tried it yet, but I hope it works. If it doesn't, I'll use sandpaper again until I can get a great big un. Ron
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:12 am ] |
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Lie Nielsen The best there is |
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| Author: | Don A [ Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:24 am ] |
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[QUOTE=old man] I'm plane poor (and plain poor). I just bought a new #4 Bailey because Cumpiano recommended a #3 or #4. Haven't tried it yet, but I hope it works. If it doesn't, I'll use sandpaper again until I can get a great big un. Ron [/QUOTE]
Ron, Cumpiano uses his in a table.....here is a link to his setup from another forum <ducking, hope this doesn't cause problems) shooting board |
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